New Hunters - Adversaries or Threats?

jht2224

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This entire thread makes my head hurt, happens at least once a year, and drives away a lot of honest to goodness frat hunters and more importantly great guys. I’ve hunted all over the country, and have seen the good and bad of public vs private. I will tell you this, the men that I hunt with have both the means and desire to hunt where ever they want. They/We choose to hunt in MA and NH where we cut our teeth and have made great relationships doing so. We have zero tolerance for anyone that is unsafe in the woods, but a lot of this other shit is just par for the course. Obviously anyone can do what they want with their own property, but man everyone has to start somewhere. I think NH Hunter has it down pretty good. This is our heritage, and it’s 100% in danger...regardless of what state you come from or what your political affiliation is. The best thing any of us can do is try to educate the “COVIDIOTS”....our biggest enemy is ourselves. Just my 2cents.
 

Muzzleloader

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There is no New Age hunter mentality or trend out there. Those with no conscience and selfish entitled mindsets have always been a part of humanity. Narcissism has always run rampant within humanity. And in all honesty, to be real, there is nothing we can do about it. You can not change a narcissist.
 

NH Hunter

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There is no New Age hunter mentality or trend out there. Those with no conscience and selfish entitled mindsets have always been a part of humanity. Narcissism has always run rampant within humanity. And in all honesty, to be real, there is nothing we can do about it. You can not change a narcissist.
I agree. Well said. I find myself always thinking about "the good old days" then I'll see a documentary or read something regardless of the topic and realize douche bags have always existed. What I'm jealous of, in those days if a narcissist or shit bird was deserving of an open hand to their ear, or just a plain good ol fashion ass kicking there wasn't a law suit and criminal charges being handed out so easily. It kept people a lot more humble. I'm not speaking of bullying, I'm talking about accountability for their behavior.
 

mowbizz

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I agree. Well said. I find myself always thinking about "the good old days" then I'll see a documentary or read something regardless of the topic and realize douche bags have always existed. What I'm jealous of, in those days if a narcissist or shit bird was deserving of an open hand to their ear, or just a plain good ol fashion ass kicking there wasn't a law suit and criminal charges being handed out so easily. It kept people a lot more humble. I'm not speaking of bullying, I'm talking about accountability for their behavior.
So you’re saying that social media has not “changed” the type of hunter that we see nowadays? It sure has.
This is the “new age” hunter I’m talking about. They are more about “ME ME ME” and putting themselves on video display for the world to “ogle”
It’s the “selfie” generation and it's real. Yes, there have always been assholes and bad hunters but it’s a different game today. My opinion only.
 

Muzzleloader

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So you’re saying that social media has not “changed” the type of hunter that we see nowadays? It sure has.
This is the “new age” hunter I’m talking about. They are more about “ME ME ME” and putting themselves on video display for the world to “ogle”
It’s the “selfie” generation and it's real. Yes, there have always been assholes and bad hunters but it’s a different game today. My opinion only.
It's displayed differently and more openly with social media. However, these souls always existed throughout the history of the sport of hunting. Thus, the disrespect of land owners, the selfishness, and the lack of a conscience has always run rampant and is not a new thing.
 

NH Hunter

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So you’re saying that social media has not “changed” the type of hunter that we see nowadays? It sure has.
This is the “new age” hunter I’m talking about. They are more about “ME ME ME” and putting themselves on video display for the world to “ogle”
It’s the “selfie” generation and it's real. Yes, there have always been assholes and bad hunters but it’s a different game today. My opinion only.
No I’m not saying that at all. I agree that’s an issue, but I think there’s always been an element of selfishness. Statistics show that hunting was more “dangerous” prior to mandatory hunter safety course.

I hate to jinx it, but with more hunters this year, and more people in the woods and there hasn’t been a single hunting “accident” this season involving a misidentified shooting. IMO those who promote hunting should make sure that is well pointed out and documented to those who have a perception that hunters are just out blasting up the woods.

It’s not like F&G regulations in place are new. Laws were made because they were needed to maintain and sustain all the game species. I’m sure you remember the days of “brown it’s down” and the affects seen of N.H. s deer herd in the late 60s.
 
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nhangler

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Wow, good debate. Interesting points of view. As NH Hunter stated, you are entitled to your opinions.

I agree that there were always people entering this past time with all the silly questions, assumptions, and making mistakes. Human nature and we have all been there. Heck, I started into this late. Hunted with my dad at an age I barely remember and he quit hunting. However, I did have a great mentor and consider myself fortunate and learned as much as I could over the years. No rush to kill, no super social race of any kind.

Such questions used to be quite popular on forums like these (also thinking of bowsite and others) and I’m sure at local sportmans rod and gun clubs. It applies to fishing as well. With these sites though there is some sense of governance, respect, and etiquette in place. An example is that spot burning is forbidden on most popular forums. Sometimes it is an outright rule, sometime just common knowledge. However, on Facebook as long as you are not selling guns, anyone can start a group. Likewise, anyone becomes an expert. However the outreach with social media is much greater than our older more traditional formats. A pic on Instagram of someone at the cape cod canal with a big striper and spot reference will surely cause heartache to the area in short order. Someone responding to a rule/reg on FB might not even be living in NH and yet you know this is how some get their information. It is what I am referring to with the “New Age Hunters”. Easier to just ask on FB than to open up the free guide they got when they bought their license at Walmart.

My point of the post is that we do need support from responsible people to keep this sport alive. ...but also that there is a large amount of newcomers that could be a greater detriment causing more and more land to get posted. Don’t forget that our state is becoming a home to many that do not hunt from states just south of us. Not a new problem. However, this year it may have gone into hyperdrive.

And as a hunter myself, I’ll tell you that a hunting license does not even come close to my massive tax bills for any or my properties. As property values go up, land will be sold and developed on further reducing huntable spaces. Some of my land is getting surveyed for that right now.

Again, when you have arrogant encounters, that one person equals 10-100 that are doing the right things as respectful hunters.
 
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nhangler

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Just want to clarify this..... What is your strategy?
Hunting from my climber on public / state land and sitting waiting for the orange army to push on their very predictable routes. Had seen many deer but were moving too fast from this and could not stop them or were too far of a shot for me.
 

benny8

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My opinion: painting new hunters with a broad brush stroke is exactly as Shawn said, like blaming responsible gun owners after some asshat shoots up a school. I will tell you that Rob and I have been mentoring a small group of young hunters (16-25). These kids are like sponges with wanting to learn the ins and outs. They spend a ton of time in the woods. They video a lot of their stuff for YouTube, but they are ethical responsible hunters who are trying to find their way in the past time that we all enjoy. We are in a technology age. Things change as time goes on. I'm old enough to remember televisions that you had to change by hand, rotary telephones and party lines. I'm sure all of us seasoned hunters(maybe most) have much of the new technology in our homes or pockets. Maybe we are lucky that the "new" generation we have been blessed to mentor, have good ethics and we are trying to fill their tool box so to speak. I just don't think we should be painting everyone with the same brush.
 

NH Hunter

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Hunting from my climber on public / state land and sitting waiting for the orange army to push on their very predictable routes. Had seen many deer but were moving too fast from this and could not stop them or were too far of a shot for me.
Gotta tell you one more of my opinions. I can't stand the term "orange army". Generally it's followed by the kind of guy that spends 25 minutes talking about "mature bucks and barren does" , like he just finished taking a peek at her in the stirups . Those people are just as detrimental going forward.
They are generally the guys who puke out every thing they hear someone else say that gives them bias confirmation. Closed minded is close minded regardless which side of the coin. There's no "winning" when neither group is willing to listen to the other. That's where the loss occurs.

It seems you have more of an issue with technology than new hunters. It appears you don't like the way they are using it. Kind of like me being a crusty ol f&^ker not agreeing with cell cams during deer season. But it is what it is. Do what Benny and Rob are doing....... Mentor those you can trust and have fun doing it.

BUT this thread originally started with you sighting a specific topic and situation. A hunter behind your house breaking the law. I have zero tolerance for anyone breaking the F&G laws. Side note..... did you see last weeks NW's law? The jackass with the baiting situation , 4 wheeler on private property and cutting limbs? I would've hung the MOFO. The only "break" I'd have given him is not taking the gun and wheeler. Guess I'd be a hard ass CO.

I have no issue with a person that holds themself to a high moral and ethical standard on a daily basis whether it be hunting or everyday life to expect or demand that of others. Doing the right thing isn't that hard, but sometimes the wrong thing makes it easier. That's where some individuals go sideways. They pick easy instead of righteous.
 
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nhangler

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My opinion: painting new hunters with a broad brush stroke is exactly as Shawn said, like blaming responsible gun owners after some asshat shoots up a school. I will tell you that Rob and I have been mentoring a small group of young hunters (16-25). These kids are like sponges with wanting to learn the ins and outs. They spend a ton of time in the woods. They video a lot of their stuff for YouTube, but they are ethical responsible hunters who are trying to find their way in the past time that we all enjoy. We are in a technology age. Things change as time goes on. I'm old enough to remember televisions that you had to change by hand, rotary telephones and party lines. I'm sure all of us seasoned hunters(maybe most) have much of the new technology in our homes or pockets. Maybe we are lucky that the "new" generation we have been blessed to mentor, have good ethics and we are trying to fill their tool box so to speak. I just don't think we should be painting everyone with the same brush.
Agreed. However, not how it works in the current world. The person that moved here from MA or NY may see no value in hunting and may actually be an anti.

For those that are not anti’s, it does not take much to to set them off. Heck, do a search on YouTube as some of these Ne Aged hunters are posting their conflicts with property owners.

Not to be a Debbie downer but this notion of permission-less open access is going to be interesting over the coming decade.

Perhaps a way to approach this may be similar to the alliances of associated snowmobile clubs?
 

benny8

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For those that are not anti’s, it does not take much to to set them off. Heck, do a search on YouTube as some of these Ne Aged hunters are posting their conflicts with property owners.
Please provide links to these videos from NH?
 

nhangler

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Gotta tell you one more of my opinions. I can't stand the term "orange army". Generally it's followed by the kind of guy that spends 25 minutes talking about "mature bucks and barren does" , like he just finished taking a peek at her in the stirups . Those people are just as detrimental going forward.
They are generally the guys who puke out every thing they hear someone else say that gives them bias confirmation. Closed minded is close minded regardless which side of the coin. There's no "winning" when neither group is willing to listen to the other. That's where the loss occurs.

It seems you have more of an issue with technology than new hunters. It appears you don't like the way they are using it. Kind of like me being a crusty ol f&^ker not agreeing with cell cams during deer season. But it is what it is. Do what Benny and Rob are doing....... Mentor those you can trust and have fun doing it.
Not true on the tech part. How it is used without governance is an issue. Increase in eyeballs is the financial focus of such systems, nothing more. They are products of a social system driven to algorithmically tell them what to do. Great series on Netflix regarding this but can also confirm as I worked for a tech company that focused on this and I had a team of 27 engineers and architects focused on testing these type of experiments. Google and Facebook are learning and leading you into places where the time your eyes spend only increases for advertising advances. This could be tennis, camping, hunting or making fart bubbles in a tub. It is based on experiments and pushed to the learned profile types based on ratings and predictive analytics. I suspect that there are a fair number of folks that are hunting that don’t really like it but rather doing it for the attention, selfies, and next post or even content that they can use to add to this social engine.

Nh Hunter, Seems you don’t like me or my thoughts on this subject. That’s fine. Just know that I’m not your primary audience that will affect these changes on either side. Not sure anyone that posts their property is losing anything, in their minds, especially if they are anti’s.

If it makes you feel any better, I have coached others and it felt great to ensure that the very little knowledge I am confident with could be used by them in their time in the woods. I will continue to do this and support those with a genuine interest, even if only curious to the point of seeing if they like it. Even if they do not, it is a win for all to understand and appreciate it.
 

NH Hunter

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Not true on the tech part. How it is used without governance is an issue. Increase in eyeballs is the financial focus of such systems, nothing more. They are products of a social system driven to algorithmically tell them what to do. Great series on Netflix regarding this but can also confirm as I worked for a tech company that focused on this and I had a team of 27 engineers and architects focused on testing these type of experiments. Google and Facebook are learning and leading you into places where the time your eyes spend only increases for advertising advances. This could be tennis, camping, hunting or making fart bubbles in a tub. It is based on experiments and pushed to the learned profile types based on ratings and predictive analytics. I suspect that there are a fair number of folks that are hunting that don’t really like it but rather doing it for the attention, selfies, and next post or even content that they can use to add to this social engine.

Nh Hunter, Seems you don’t like me or my thoughts on this subject. That’s fine. Just know that I’m not your primary audience that will affect these changes on either side. Not sure anyone that posts their property is losing anything, in their minds, especially if they are anti’s.

If it makes you feel any better, I have coached others and it felt great to ensure that the very little knowledge I am confident with could be used by them in their time in the woods. I will continue to do this and support those with a genuine interest, even if only curious to the point of seeing if they like it. Even if they do not, it is a win for all to understand and appreciate it.

I'm aware of the "social dilemma " There's a thread I posted a month and a half ago recommending every person watch it.

I disagree with your thoughts. I don't dislike you because you have an opinion. I'm secure with me, and don't concern myself with people liking or disliking me based on thought out opinions. I hope everyone feels the same. I absolutely disagree with dismantling the "permission less access" or "right to trespass unless posted otherwise". WE the hunter , angler, and trapper pay the most to manage and protect NH's wildlife, including non game species. In return NHF&G promotes and protects the right to trespass law. They understand that losing acreage means losing hunters ='s losing needed funding. My point is EVERY hunter should understand this fact as well. We all need one another. I don't care about someone hunting where I am as long as they do it in a safe manner and leaving nothing behind to assure WE can ALL continue to hunt there for generations.

You've spoken of illegal activity, and hunters that represent themselves irresponsibly. I, like you am tired of "defending" hunters. I know as you do there are scumbags, but that's in all walks of life. I have zero desire to lose access for nothing more than someone being able to have "the place to themselves", or worried about someone shooting "their buck" just because they have a couple videos of that deer on camera. I also have ZERO desire for New England to turn into the midwest pay to play. Keep in mind..... that's a money losing proposition. We don't have the herd nor the size bucks they do in those areas where 10k a year leases are the norm. I've already cited you reasons why that's foolish based on responsibility factors of getting paid for use of land.

I assume you don't do much tracking or still hunting? There's no way a snowmobile style access would work for hunters that choose to spend their time that way. I live in the valley between Kearsarge and Ragged Mountains. There are countless wood lots between here and there just in my small town. Hunting a 10 acres spot for the rest of my life would not interest me. If NH ever ends up like the midwest, one of two things will happen...... I'll not touch the woods with a rifle in hand again, or I'll be made to be an outlaw. I really love to hunt. So........... you guess what will take place? I'll give you a hint.... the answer would be no different if the government ever told me I had to take part in a "mandatory buy back" for my firearms.

I have made many relationships with dozens of land owners who have huge tracts of land, even talked them out of posting those tracts due to a couple ass hats. Just to insure if YOU are ever in my town, see a nice buck cross the road, you can head in after him. You're welcome......
 
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NH Mountains

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You will be seeing more rural land being developed in the next generation. More people equals less land whether it’s hunters or city people moving rural looking to film their YouTube channel. Every house that built is part of the overall equation.
 

Muzzleloader

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You will be seeing more rural land being developed in the next generation. More people equals less land whether it’s hunters or city people moving rural looking to film their YouTube channel. Every house that built is part of the overall equation.
The world population has increased by 2 billion since I was in high school. You think USA should have a cap on number of children created per woman?
 

NH Mountains

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The world population has increased by 2 billion since I was in high school. You think USA should have a cap on number of children created per woman?
It doesn’t matter what I think. The media and lots of people in Washington are advocating open borders. Those new people will need to live somewhere.
 




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