New Arrow Set-up

VTHunter08

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So my hunting buddy and I are looking at new arrow set-ups. We both currently shoot rage, but after seeing what happened to me in ohio with hitting what I think was the brisket bone we're contemplating going to a fixed blade, more specifically probably slick tricks. I'm leaning toward the viper tricks, but want to wait to see some reviews on the brand new 2018 wicked tricks. We're also kicking the tires on this b/c elk is in both of our near futures. We're also thinking of making a change to a heavier arrow. I can't remember what he shoots but I think its something in the 8gpi range, and I'm shooting Easton axis which I believe are 9.2gpi. We're thinking of going to the FMJ's to get up in the 10-11. Also kicking the tires on four (3") vanes instead of three 2" blazers that we shoot right now. Anyone have any experience with any of these?
 

sneaky_pete000

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I've have a little, but I'm learning archery all over again after a long layoff - so don't take my thoughts as gospel.

I shoot the FMJ's and love them. However, I'm not a long range shooter. They're heavy enough so you'd probably end up adding a pin for long range stuff, but for under 35yrds, the penetration is incredible. They also see very durable, if thats any value.
My son shoots the Viper Tricks, and a couple years ago, he put an arrow in his first deer. If I remember right, he was shooting 26" draw length and only 42lbs, but got a full pass through on an adult deer.
 

shawn_in_MA

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1) Slick tricks are nice heads no issues there
2) An Axis is already a fairly heavy arrow, an FMJ will work fine too. Many of the 400 spine "hunter" arrows are right around 8.4gpi,
3) Was the deer in OH facing you?? Hit the sternum??
4) If you go with 4 fletch, you can probably get away with less than 3". I would think a std profile 2.5" would be sufficient. I prefer 105 x 75 degree orientation...Either way, make sure you are shooting dropaway rests.
 

Escout711

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It sounds like you have a heavy enough arrow. I shoot a similar weight arrow with a 50 grain insert to up the FOC. My personal preference is to stay at or above 400 grains total. Slicks are great heads, but I am a huge fan of the Exodus heads for fixed. They fly amazing, and they are tough as nails. If you like the Rage, but want something tougher, NAP Killzone is a good one. I am not sure why you want to go away from the blazers, they do a great job with broadheads, especially with a helical.
 
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VTHunter08

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3) Was the deer in OH facing you?? Hit the sternum??
4) If you go with 4 fletch, you can probably get away with less than 3". I would think a std profile 2.5" would be sufficient. I prefer 105 x 75 degree orientation...Either way, make sure you are shooting dropaway rests.
So he was quartering to me, not hard quartering, I couldn't see his chest when I shot. He was 31 yards when I stopped him and he was alert as soon as I stopped him. Release felt great, initial arrow flight was great, but the last second he went to booger outta there and pulled his front leg back and turned into the shot. Hit him 4" up from the bottom of his chest, 2"ish off center of the chest. Got maybe 4" of penetration and my arrow exploded on contact. From what we could tell arrow broke off approximately where the end of the insert is up inside the arrow. So yeah Sternum is our guess, I think I was inside the shoulder/leg. Don't know if a fixed blade would have gone through or not, not sure if a beefier arrow would have not blown up, but you know how it is after something like this you start to think "what can I do next time if a similar situation happens"

I shoot a QAD HDX rest, and shoot a double pin spot hogg fast eddie xl sight. 29" draw, prime rize at 68-70lbs.
 
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VTHunter08

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It sounds like you have a heavy enough arrow. I shoot a similar weight arrow with a 50 grain insert to up the FOC. My personal preference is to stay at or above 400 grains total. Slicks are great heads, but I am a huge fan of the Exodus heads for fixed. They fly amazing, and they are tough as nails. If you like the Rage, but want something tougher, NAP Killzone is a good one. I am not sure why you want to go away from the blazers, they do a great job with broadheads, especially with a helical.
I've always liked the axis arrows. I've them for 4-5 years, killed probably 12 deer with them and only twice can I think I haven't gotten a pass through. BUT none of the deer were further then 22 yards, and all of them were ribs shots. I was just really surprised how it preformed when I hit that deer. It wasn't a shear break off like a shoulder can sometimes do when they run. It was an explosion at contact.

I've always liked blazers too, and I'm not saying I'd definitely get away from them. Just the research I'm doing says sometimes with fixed blade broadheads you need a little more surface area on the back of the arrow to quickly stabilize during the shot. I think I'm just at the point of learning and researching and starting to set-up my own arrows for what works best for my set-up. Might be a lot of trial and error but if I can find a combo that's significantly more accurate then shop/store bought arrows I'm game.
 
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sneaky_pete000

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Just the research I'm doing says sometimes with fixed blade broadheads you need a little more surface area on the back of the arrow to quickly stabilize during the shot. I think I'm just at the point of learning and researching and starting to set-up my own arrows for what works best for my set-up. Might be a lot of trial and error but if I can find a combo that's significantly more accurate then shop/store bought arrows I'm game.
GET 'EM BOYS.....

You've reached a point of contention.

Some people will say that putting more fletching on the back is treating the symptom, not the sickness. If the arrow comes out of the bow at even the slightest angle, a fixed blade will "steer" it in that direction. Tune the rest, nock point, and shaft stiffness. Lots of guys go with mechanicals at this point, because they don't "steer" the front, but the arrow will still come out of the shot at a slight angle, potentially sacrificing penetration and long range accuracy.

If a bow is tuned to perfection, and your form is good, then a fixed blade will hit with your mechanicals, with your field points, etc, without any extra fletching on the back. The fixed blades will show any imperfections.

However, I type this as if I'm an expert....there are several guys on here that know 100x more than I do about this, and might even disagree.
 

shawn_in_MA

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So he was quartering to me, not hard quartering, I couldn't see his chest when I shot. He was 31 yards when I stopped him and he was alert as soon as I stopped him. Release felt great, initial arrow flight was great, but the last second he went to booger outta there and pulled his front leg back and turned into the shot. Hit him 4" up from the bottom of his chest, 2"ish off center of the chest. Got maybe 4" of penetration and my arrow exploded on contact. From what we could tell arrow broke off approximately where the end of the insert is up inside the arrow. So yeah Sternum is our guess, I think I was inside the shoulder/leg. Don't know if a fixed blade would have gone through or not, not sure if a beefier arrow would have not blown up, but you know how it is after something like this you start to think "what can I do next time if a similar situation happens"

I shoot a QAD HDX rest, and shoot a double pin spot hogg fast eddie xl sight. 29" draw, prime rize at 68-70lbs.
In a situation like that a fixed blade probably would not have helped either.
Either the FMJ or the Axis are great arrows. The Slick Tricks are real nice and I have used G5 Strikers in the past as well with good results. Keep us posted as you go through the process.
 

Escout711

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In a situation like that a fixed blade probably would not have helped either.
Either the FMJ or the Axis are great arrows. The Slick Tricks are real nice and I have used G5 Strikers in the past as well with good results. Keep us posted as you go through the process.
I agree with Shawn. If he was quartered to so much that you could not see his chest, you just took a bad shot. It happens, buck fever makes us do crazy things. I don’t think you should take what happened as a failure of your equipment. Never heard a bad thing about Axis arrows. Rage, either you hate them or you don’t, but your situation is exactly why a lot of folks don’t like them, they aren’t meant to punch through bone. Slick Tricks, Exodus, Strikers, Wasp, are all good fixed heads. Did you ever recover he buck? I’d almost think you hit the “knuckle” from the description. That’s hard on ANY setup.
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VTHunter08

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He was actually more broadside then that at the shot. When I said I couldn't see the chest I meant the area between his two front legs. But as he went to go he pulled that left front leg back therefore pulling open his front chest and hit the sternum area probably 3rd rib down from the top. It replays in my mind like slow motion still to this day haha.

I agree about the tuning, and form thing. I try to get my bow in every year to get tuned up and paper tuned. Form ehh I probably could use a little work, definitely not perfect. Does anyone here shoot 4 fletchings or no? Or tried it?
 

sneaky_pete000

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Although, you could say that having a significantly heavy arrow wouldn't have hurt and might have helped right? If I knew I was going to make a perfect shot every time, I'd go with a light arrow (for flat trajectory) and a big honkin mechanical head. Its the fear of a less than optimal shot that keeps me staying with the heavy FMJ's and a fixed head.

Correct me if you disagree gents...I have a lot to learn in this realm.
 

shawn_in_MA

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I agree about the tuning, and form thing. I try to get my bow in every year to get tuned up and paper tuned. Form ehh I probably could use a little work, definitely not perfect. Does anyone here shoot 4 fletchings or no? Or tried it?
I know some people who shoot 4 fletch. I tried it and didn't see a difference in stability but there is nothing wrong with 4 fletch. Either way I would lean more towards a 2.75-3" higher profile vane for fixed heads 3 fletch or 2-2.75" std profile for 4 fletch
 

Escout711

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Although, you could say that having a significantly heavy arrow wouldn't have hurt and might have helped right? If I knew I was going to make a perfect shot every time, I'd go with a light arrow (for flat trajectory) and a big honkin mechanical head. Its the fear of a less than optimal shot that keeps me staying with the heavy FMJ's and a fixed head.

Correct me if you disagree gents...I have a lot to learn in this realm.
I think you can travel deep down the rabbit hole with this, and it’s probably best to avoid it. You don’t want to wind up like one of those knobs on Archerytalk quoting Dr. Ashby, shooting a 600 grain arrow with a 150 grain single bevel broadhead out of an 80# bow. A 400 grain arrow tipped with a 1”-1 1/4” fixed broadhead should be plenty of oomph for just about any deer. A shot into that front knuckle is always going to be dangerous.

I know some people who shoot 4 fletch. I tried it and didn't see a difference in stability but there is nothing wrong with 4 fletch. Either way I would lean more towards a 2.75-3" higher profile vane for fixed heads 3 fletch or 2-2.75" std profile for 4 fletch
I know you lose some speed with a helical, how much would a 4 fletch setup slow things down?
 

sneaky_pete000

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I think you can travel deep down the rabbit hole with this, and it’s probably best to avoid it. You don’t want to wind up like one of those knobs on Archerytalk quoting Dr. Ashby, shooting a 600 grain arrow with a 150 grain single bevel broadhead out of an 80# bow. A 400 grain arrow tipped with a 1”-1 1/4” fixed broadhead should be plenty of oomph for just about any deer. A shot into that front knuckle is always going to be dangerous.
Oh yeah, I agree 100%. I didn't mean go off the deep end, just that if your going to err, err on the side of too heavy, as opposed to too light.
 

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I’m shooting a 340 spine arrow at around 9.5 GPI 28” long. 70 pound draw weight. I’ve shot muzzy 3 blade 100 grain for years with great success. I got a 3 pack of magnus stingers 125 grain for $10 the other day so I think I’ll give them a try. The lifetime warranty on them is a plus also.
 

VTHunter08

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Wandling sounds like you and I are shooting a very similar set up. I have a 29" arrow though. I tried shooting muzzy 3 blades probably 8-10 years ago and I couldn't get those damn things to group for me. I'd struggle consistently hitting a paper plate at 30 yards. That was also with an older bow that probably wasn't tuned up very well. AnyWho the one comment I want to make about a lot of this is, what happened last year is certainly a reason why I'm contemplating the change but it isn't the main reason I'm contemplating it. The main reason is the potential of Elk in the next year or two. I know I've heard of people killing elk with expandables, but 99% of the hunters on youtube are shooting some sort of fixed blade and I'm guessing they know a million times more about hunting elk then I do.
 

Wandling

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Wandling sounds like you and I are shooting a very similar set up. I have a 29" arrow though. I tried shooting muzzy 3 blades probably 8-10 years ago and I couldn't get those damn things to group for me. I'd struggle consistently hitting a paper plate at 30 yards. That was also with an older bow that probably wasn't tuned up very well. AnyWho the one comment I want to make about a lot of this is, what happened last year is certainly a reason why I'm contemplating the change but it isn't the main reason I'm contemplating it. The main reason is the potential of Elk in the next year or two. I know I've heard of people killing elk with expandables, but 99% of the hunters on youtube are shooting some sort of fixed blade and I'm guessing they know a million times more about hunting elk then I do.
i just worked with a guy last night that lived in Colorado for 15 years before moving back to Ohio recently. We were talking about bow setups. He likes fixed blade 125 grain for elk and mule deer. I haven’t shot my magnus heads yet but everything I’ve read and watched about them I think I’ll like them.
 

Wandling

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I’ve been reading and watching a lot about arrow setups. I’m going to get around 500 grain total weight. The easiest and best way to do this is to install brass inserts. I’m going with 75 grain inserts and a 125 grain head. I saw a video testing different weight arrows on a dead hog. He used the same broadhead just different weight arrows. It wasn’t until he got to 500 that he got a pass through. This won’t matter much on Whitetails unless you hit a shoulder but for elk I want the weight.
 

VTHunter08

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I think my buddy is going to switch to the arrow I'm currently shooting, Easton axis, and I'm going to stick with them. We're both going to go to a 2.25" swift fletch with a helical, and we're going to do the brass insert thing. There is brass inserts for the Easton axis that are 75gr but have a break-off spot that makes them 50gr. I think we're both going to do the 50gr. That'll put me up around 455.5gr, and around a 12% FOC. Probably be teaming this up with a slick trick broadhead. I'd like to chrono my bow at some point but guessing a 275fps speed with that set-up I should be producing around 76.5ft/lbs of KE.

My old set-up was about 417.5gr, and 8.8 FOC, and produce about 75.3ft/lbs of KE, but this was with an expandable broadhead.
 


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