Fair Chase?

41mag

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Let's stir the pot a little.....
How do you feel about this one from the Addison Independent:

"According to Andy Buxton owner of Buxton’s Store, where ****** weighed his buck, ****** was on an Orwell job site that day when he received an alert on a phone app and received permission to leave and pursue his prey.

The result? ++++++ shot a 262-pound, 10-point buck not far from Lake Champlain in Orwell, the largest deer the Independent has reported killed in at last two decades."

Everyone seems to have game cameras, some have the pics sent directly to your phone. So when your phone tells you your "target buck" has arrived, you go shoot it? Do not know if that was the case here or not...

I offer no opinion, but is it fair chase? Or, is this what hunting has become?
Let 'er rip...….
 
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Mountain Hunter

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So, his satellite camera sent him a picture of the buck, so he hurried up and got over there and shot it? Correct?
 

NH Mountains

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Not sure what Vermont’s laws are on this. In New Hampshire cellular cameras are not considered fair chase and is illegal to take game with the use of them under the above scenario. Now if his brother was driving by a field and saw a big buck and texted him to get his butt over there then that may be considered fair chase. Sort of the same thing only different though.

One could argue trail cameras have made hunters lazier than they used to be. Instead of putting in the time they can pin point where bucks are all hours of the day.
 

Camp Rider

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Watch Outdoor Chanel....technology is taking over all hunting...blue tooth...binocs connected to the rifle scope....hold over so many inches and shoot the animal at 600 yards. Tell me food plots are not baiting....

The days of Larry Benoit and many of us elder " tracker hunters" are long gone.

Heading for NEK camp to ML hunt....likely my last year.....
 

Muzzleloader

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The article implies it was a cell camera hunt. Usually the law states that you can't hunt after a notification like that the same day or within 24 hours, I forget how it's worded. Apparently they don't have the law there. But anyways, this action is crossing the line of fair chase.
 

jht2224

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If this method of hunting is legal in the state that this story allegedly took place then what is the question? We don’t have to like it but if it’s legal it’s legal and not up to anyone but the hunter to judge.

Its sort of like wearing a mask due to
COVID. If it’s not a law in your state/town then it’s up to the individual to wear a mask, whether we like it or not.

Maybe not a perfect analogy but I hope it makes my point.

End of the day if a person isn’t breaking the law, it doesn’t really matter what we think.

Do we think this sort of poisons the well for what we all love to do? Well, I can understand that perspective. At the end of the day I chose to support law abiding sportsmen even if i don’t necessarily agree with their methods.
 

NH Hunter

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If this method of hunting is legal in the state that this story allegedly took place then what is the question? We don’t have to like it but if it’s legal it’s legal and not up to anyone but the hunter to judge.

Its sort of like wearing a mask due to
COVID. If it’s not a law in your state/town then it’s up to the individual to wear a mask, whether we like it or not.

Maybe not a perfect analogy but I hope it makes my point.

End of the day if a person isn’t breaking the law, it doesn’t really matter what we think.

Do we think this sort of poisons the well for what we all love to do? Well, I can understand that perspective. At the end of the day I chose to support law abiding sportsmen even if i don’t necessarily agree with their methods.
At one point it wasn't illegal to wipe the plains out of its bison. At one point it wasn't illegal to use deck guns to hunt ducks. Both were changed too little too late.
 

NH Hunter

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That's almost as bad as tracking a deer down in the snow. A deer has to make tracks and the unethical hunter can just follow them and shoot the buck. 😃
[/QUOTE
Really? I know you're stirring the pot, but we had an anti hunting legislator try to submit a bill for no deer hunting on snow 10-15 years ago.
 
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jht2224

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I assume that’s why we have bag limits? Has the use of technology drastically increased the harvest numbers year over year? I honestly don’t know the answer just curious.
 

VTHunter08

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I don't think the OP was asking if it was legal, that was brought up later by someone else, but think the original question was if we feel its fair chase or not.

Me personally do I think its fair chase ehh probably not. But on the other hand a hunter that needs to rely on electronics to put him in the game probably doesn't have the skill set to harvest many deer on his own anyway. Big deer die every year in even less honorable ways then this every year. Reminds me of a buck my dad was hunting last year around his house. Had several trail cam pics of it, beautiful 10 pointer. One day while my father was out doing yard work he looked down at the neighbors house (neighbors live part time here, and part time in montreal) to see a strange truck parked in the driveway next to the house. Moments later shots started to ring out and he looked down at that truck to see another shot, then someone come out of the drivers side of the truck and run toward the road just as two deer ran across the road, while shots continued to be shot across the road as cars were approaching. One of the shots did the trick and the beautiful 10 point died in the field. Driver jumped back in his truck, drove out into the field and loaded the buck up without gutting it. Game wardens were called, suspect questioned, suspect lied about where the buck was killed, and how. Suspect was brought to court but because they couldn't prove the original shots came from inside the vehicle, and that they couldn't determine if the killing shot came from inside the truck or outside, then the only thing they could do is give him a couple hundred dollar fine for shooting across a road. Course on facebook and on the vermont big game trophy club page he was hailed as an amazing hunter, and how he again killed a beautiful big vermont buck. My initial thought was with deer harvested like this how can that hunter see that deer on the wall for years to come and be proud of it? So are these kills legal? ehh maybe. Are they fair chase? ehhhh. Are they honorable, and would 99% of the hunters sleep well at night harvesting a deer that way, probably not.
 

sneaky_pete000

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Its definitely not fair chase to me, and I wouldn't be very proud of my deer if I got it that way. But I won't criticize the guy because I'm sure there are longbow users out there that would tell me using a carbon arrow with a steel tip on a modern compound bow is going too far. We all have our own line in the sand I guess. In the end, unless we see success ratio's climbing rapidly, we have to tolerate people with a different set internal bylaws. Whats that saying about trying to legislate morals?
 

jht2224

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That’s the thing you can’t legislate morals...whether we like it or not it’s either legal or it’s not. It’s tough to be the moral police when everyone has a different threshold on what’s “ok” and what’s “not. But the game laws are black and white.

Its definitely not fair chase to me, and I wouldn't be very proud of my deer if I got it that way. But I won't criticize the guy because I'm sure there are longbow users out there that would tell me using a carbon arrow with a steel tip on a modern compound bow is going too far. We all have our own line in the sand I guess. In the end, unless we see success ratio's climbing rapidly, we have to tolerate people with a different set internal bylaws. Whats that saying about trying to legislate morals?
 

Pine-lock

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I'd need more details. Going to hunt a deer your cell cam sends you a picture of that's in a 5 acre lot between housing developments, or that's eating out of a corn pile. I have no interest in that and I don't consider it fair chase, although fair chase is not always taken into consideration when trying to meet harvest goals at a biological level. If the camera is 2 miles back in big woods does that change the story for anyone? I think it would for me.
 

Vtbuck223

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This is why it is so important to mentor and encourage a true love of the hunt. Sadly, there will always be people that don't actually like to hunt but want to shoot a deer. To me it really isn't that much different than a situation I am aware of a couple years ago. A guy was at work...got a call from his father in law that a buck was standing out in the field behind his house...so he left work...drove to his father in laws and shot the deer from the house. In the pictures of him with the buck he is dressed for work and you can see the house in the background. To me...basically the same thing...not hunting at all...just shooting a deer. It was a beautiful big buck also...but as was pointed out...how can you really feel good about it when you tell people your story...and even if you make up a lie...you know the truth. But then again...people are different...maybe they really do feel good about it? As has also been pointed out...this is nothing new...people used to buy other peoples deer and tag it as their own...or pay a guide to shoot one for them...and we have all heard stories of people stealing deer. As for me...I would rather not get a buck at all than get one in this manner...and a buck that is taken in the woods while applying skill and knowledge of hunting...is far superior no matter how small or big it is. Whenever I see a buck...after looking at the beauty of it my first question is "tell me the story...".
 

arlow

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I'd need more details. Going to hunt a deer your cell cam sends you a picture of that's in a 5 acre lot between housing developments, or that's eating out of a corn pile. I have no interest in that and I don't consider it fair chase, although fair chase is not always taken into consideration when trying to meet harvest goals at a biological level. If the camera is 2 miles back in big woods does that change the story for anyone? I think it would for me.
Exactly. In the woods a deer can cover an awful lot of ground in not very much time. By the time you gear up, drive to the spot, walk out to the general area he could be miles away. or he could be locked up with a doe very close. You still need to have sufficient still hunting skills to figure out where he has gone, get within range to shoot him and make a good shot. Is it an advantage to know he was in the area? Absolutely, but it is certainly not exactly a bird in hand situation.

I watched this guy thrash an overhanging branch at a scrape about 80 yards uphill from me a couple weeks ago. I tried grunting him in, he circled downwind, got my scent, blew at me and booked out of there. Not more than 5 minutes I got this photo of him 3/4 mile away. They cover ground fast! thumbnail (1).jpg
 

Mainewoods

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These days not too many people care how hard you worked to get your deer, as there's always a bigger one that someone has posted on Instagram. But make sure you sit way back when you hold you bucks head up, so that you look like a midget and the bucks looks 300lbs. It's ok if everyone is doing it. The way I look at it is if you don't condemn it, then you condone it, and kind of like a mostly "peaceful" protest/mostly legal hunting activity. Using a phone app connected to a camera that tells you exactly when a buck is in the area during hunting season is not fair chase in my book.

Shooting a buck that way must tell a good story though. It would be a toss up between "a week in the Maine woods with the Russell brothers", or "the day my iphone app made me a hunting legend". It would be a coin toss to figure out which one to read first....
 

Camp Rider

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That's almost as bad as tracking a deer down in the snow. A deer has to make tracks and the unethical hunter can just follow them and shoot the buck. 😃
Going to assume you are trying to be funny...have seen your numerous pics/kills on here.

Big generation gap in today's hunting population...especially in states like Vermont, and unfortunately, a large decline in hunters.

You and I are at least a generation apart...possibly more, and no doubt have a very different perspective on hunting.

In today's hunting world, I believe we have more "killers" than we have "hunters", and our/your demise is on the horizon...sooner than later here in the liberal northeast.

Best guards..
 




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