209 primer makes it illegal

rogo

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My nephew told me that a friend of his was busted this year for using a 209 primer in his muzzleloader. Apparently he has a 25 years old non-violent felony conviction and altho it is legal for him to use a muzzleloader, it is not legal for him to use a 209 primer type ignition.
Anyone ever hear of this before. Seems ridicuolus to me. A No 11 cap or a 209 primer both do the same thing. Make your gun go boom. I wonder what the justification for this is?
 

MBullism

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Anyone ever hear of this before. Seems ridicuolus to me. A No 11 cap or a 209 primer both do the same thing. Make your gun go boom. I wonder what the justification for this is?
The difference between traditional and modern?
 

dixidawg

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Is he in Mass?

From the Mass General Laws:

First, a definition of AMMUNITION:

Section 121. As used in sections 122 to 131P, inclusive, the following words shall, unless the context clearly requires otherwise, have the following meanings:-

“Ammunition”, cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun. The term “ammunition” shall also mean tear gas cartridges, chemical mace or any device or instrument which contains or emits a liquid, gas, powder or any other substance designed to incapacitate.


And here it says you cannot POSSESS ammunition without a license:




Section 129C. No person, other than a licensed dealer or one who has been issued a license to carry a pistol or revolver or an exempt person as hereinafter described, shall own or possess any firearm, rifle, shotgun or ammunition unless he has been issued a firearm identification card by the licensing authority pursuant to the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine B.


So again, while it is acceptable to possess the muzzleloader, you cannot possess the powder, igniter, or bullet needed to make it go boom.
 

rogo

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primer

No, not Mass. He is in Vermont and this happened in Vermont. I am just ystified what the difference it makes?
 

rustyg

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I was on Federal Grand Jury duty, and we had a case like this. Because the primers could be used in reloading, they are considered part of ammunition.
A convicted felon is not allowed to have in possession.
Only the old #11 cap is allowed.

I'm not sure what the Vt. state law is, but since the primers are made outside of Vt, it is a federal crime, as they come from out of state

Kind of a stupid law.
 

VTwoodchuck

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Rogo:
Your assumption is correct. In VT the 209 makes a muzzleloader a "modern firearm". Convicted felons can not own modern firearms in VT.
To be honest this is a very reasonable law for violent offenders. It does not seem correct for a DUI as an example.
Your nephew could still hunt any season in VT with a bow or inline muzzleloader utilizing a cap.
This is really a minor handicap all things considered.
 
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NH Hunter

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I just had a guy in the shop the other day asking the samething. I know that if it can take a center fire barrell than it's illegal for a convicted fellon to own it, due to having to fill out paper work for it such as a prohunter or encore. I didn't know that a 209 made it illegal though. Was it a prohunter or encore Rogo?
 

rustyg

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Even possession of 209 primers is a federal offense for a felon
 

NH Mountains

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Even possession of 209 primers is a federal offense for a felon
Yes, under Federal law, (18 US Code, section 922) The federal gun laws prohibit possession of "any firearm or ammunition." 209 primers are considered ammunition.
 

rogo

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primers

Yes, you guys are correct. After talking with a friend who works with the Vt Attorney Generals office he confirmed the situation. The primer is the problem because it makes up a part of ammunition. Felons cannot have ammo of any type so the primer is the reason. He also said my nephews buddy will probably just get a small fine as it is not a large deal"hunting with a 209 primer". If he were doing something else he could get a few years but in this case probablu get off light.
Thanks for all the help.
 

BruceBruce1959

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The end results of a percussion cap AND a 209 primer are the exact same, which indicates how ridiculous some Vermont laws are.
Personally, I think any judge that would enforce this charge should be removed from the bench, it's like saying you can only get a DWI in compact vehicles not Mid or full size.

GO VERMONT !!!
 
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NH Hunter

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The end results of a percussion cap AND a 209 primer are the exact same, which indicates how ridiculous some Vermont laws are.
Personally, I think any judge that would enforce this charge should be removed from the bench, it's like saying you can only get a DWI in compact vehicles not Mid or full size.

GO VERMONT !!!
The worse part is that it's a federal law. Not just Vermont.
 

bigbore442001

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I was on Federal Grand Jury duty, and we had a case like this. Because the primers could be used in reloading, they are considered part of ammunition.
A convicted felon is not allowed to have in possession.
Only the old #11 cap is allowed.

I'm not sure what the Vt. state law is, but since the primers are made outside of Vt, it is a federal crime, as they come from out of state

Kind of a stupid law.
Not to start too much of a thread drift but has anyone considered the power of jury nullification?
 




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